Chris Proudlove’s Source Declares Israel an Illegal Entity

In a recent comment made by Chris Proudlove on the cfz website he cites the following,

 

“The United Nations cannot create a Palestinian Arab state. Its resolutions are not legally binding. They are only recommendations.”

 

http://www.christiansforzion.com/comment-mike-fryer/2013/10/3/apartheid-a-lie

 

What Chris fails to comprehend is that Israel declared its Independence based on UNGA res 181 but let me put that aside for a second and look at another comment poor old delusional Chris made [under his duplicate account of Buster J Bailey] “Israel actually has a better claim to its existence, having been created by the U.N. rather than by the whims and national interests of the Allied victors.”

https://christiansforzionwatch.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/israels-real-legitimacy/

 

lol talk about confused. Anyway back on track. Let’s look at Israel’s declaration Of Independence.

 

“On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.

 

This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.

 

ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE’S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.”

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/israel.asp

 

So, according to the source Chris uses, Israel is an illegal entity.

 

Now let’s look at the blatant lie his source tells.

 

“Dr Wallace concludes: “In sum, the conflict is not a traditional conflict over borders – that is not even really the issue, as demonstrated by the fact that national boundaries have gone so long undetermined.”

http://www.christiansforzion.com/comment-mike-fryer/2013/10/3/apartheid-a-lie

 

Erm, no. That’s a lie. Here’s what Israel actually declared to the USA, the first nation to recognize Israel based on the below quote.

 

“MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

 

These crazed Zionists tell so many lies it’s no surprise that from time to time they trip themselves up.

 

One must wonder if these people really are advocates for Israel and Jews.

 

Ps If you read the declaration in full you can spot the Zionist lies. Here’s what the USA said just prior to Israel’s declaration,

 

“The United States Representative at the United Nations (Austin) to

 the Secretary of State

 SECRET US URGENT NEW YORK, May 9, 1948-6: 43 p. m.:

 Parodi called meeting of British, Belgian, American, French representatives last night to discuss situation regarding truce and possible action which SC may be called to take following May 15. Hare and I attended. Parodi said time fast running out and essential to make up minds now regarding certain problems.

 

He said that as of May 15 we would be faced by declarations two states of Palestine coupled with entrance of Abdullah. Regarding latter two ideas are current. The first is that if Abdullah moved beyond own frontier it might constitute an”act of aggression”. The second idea was that if he entered on invitation of Arab population of Palestine his act might not constitute aggression. Parodi said he was inclined to second theory and thought conclusion to that effect would avoid endless argument.

 – Foreign relations of the United States, 1948. The Near East, South Asia, and Africa, page 946

 

Memorandum by the Director of the Office of United Nations

 Affairs (Rusk) to the Under Secretary of State (Lovett)

 SECRET [WASHINGTON,] May 4, 1948:

 

 “The Jews will be the actual aggressors against the Arabs. However, the Jews will claim that they are merely defending the boundaries of a state which were traced by the UN and approved, at least in principle, by two-thirds of the UN membership. The question which will confront the Security Council in scarcely ten days’ time will be whether Jewish armed attack on Arab communities in Palestine is legitimate or whether it constitutes such a threat to international peace and security as to call for coercive measures by the Security Council. The situation may be made more difficult and less clear-cut if, as is probable, Arab armies from outside Palestine cross the frontier to aid their disorganized and demoralized brethren who will be the objects of Jewish attack. In the event of such Arab outside aid the Jews will come running to the Security Council with the claim that their state is the object of armed aggression and will use every means to obscure the fact that it is their own armed aggression against the Arabs inside Palestine which is the cause of Arab counter-attack.”

 

The internal memo was published in the Foreign relations of the United States, 1948. The Near East, South Asia, and Africa , Volume V, Part 2, page 848

 

 

 

 

 

 

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14 responses to “Chris Proudlove’s Source Declares Israel an Illegal Entity

  1. Christopher Proudlove

    Trevor Barclay misses an important point about the fulfillment of many biblical prophecies when the state of Israel was reconstituted in 1948.
    The League of Nations unanimously accepted the San Remo Treaty in the aftermath of the First World War and the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Out of the previous regions ruled by Turkey the plan was to create one Jewish state and a number of Muslim nations. The League of Nations mandated Britain to sort out matters pertaining to Palestine and Mesopotamia (Iraq).
    Britain’s Mandate, as far as Jews were concerned, was to grant them statehood when they were ready to rule. UK Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill deemed that there was sufficient Arab infrastructure in land to the east of the River Jordan and so he created Trans-Jordan, subsequently Jordan. Trans-Jordan took nearly 78 per cent of the old Ottoman region of Palestine. This included land to the north-east of the River Jordan that was part of the traditional Israel.
    Britain was meanwhile tasked to create conditions that would eventually usher in the rebirth of Israel. As time wore on, however, war-weary and almost bankrupted Britain could not control the increasingly military conflict between Arab and Jew. This led to Britain handing over the Mandate to the United Nations, the successor to the League of Nations. Under the terms of succession the U.N was obliged to complete legalities stemming from the League of Nations. So, it was as holder of the Mandate that the UN facilitated the recreation of Israel. The action of U.N. was a rubber stamp to what the League of Nations had stipulated.
    Trevor Barclay is thus incorrect to state that, according to me, Israel is an illegal entry. It is yet another diabolical example of his pathetic attempts to ‘spin’
    I cannot speak on behalf of BJB but I can confirm I do not have a duplicate account with him. Trevor Barclay typically refuses to believe this preferring to follow the machinations of his anti-Israel mind.
    My cousin and I do not own computers. We use the facilities at a local library and can end up sitting side by side. One day BJ saw what I was doing and also decided to comment to Trevor Barclay. Suspicious Trevor traced us to the same facilitator and wrongly concluded that we were one and the same. BJB has replied to Trevor in total about three times. Indeed, I have told Trevor that I urged BJB to stop replying to him because of his intemperate language which he did for a time.
    Censoring Trevor Barclay conveniently does not quote the whole of my reference to Dr Wallace. It stated:
    The Lord Jesus spoke about Jews being trampled down by Gentiles. This is amply demonstrated by the San Remo Treaty, ratified unanimously by the League of Nations in 1922. The treaty gave the future state of Israel the right to settle Jews between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea. Now, the nations are infamously colluding to whitewash San Remo from the history books in order to deprive Israelis of more Holy Land territory which is rightfully theirs.
    Cambridge Ph.D. Cynthia Day Wallace exposes this dastardly deed in her book “Foundations of the International Legal Rights of the Jewish People and the State of Israel: Implications for a New Palestinian State.
    You can read an executive summary of the book on the European Coalition for Israel website on http://www.ec4i.org.
    Dr Wallace is among several legal luminaries insisting that San Remo is still in force as an international legal instrument and that it is incorrect to call Israel “an occupying power.”
    The United Nations cannot create a Palestinian Arab state. Its resolutions are not legally binding. They are only recommendations.
    In the ECI summary Dr Wallace concludes: “In sum, the conflict is not a traditional conflict over borders – that is not even really the issue, as demonstrated by the fact that national boundaries have gone so long undetermined. It is a conflict over historic rights and the internationally recognized need of a unified ‘people’ to have a place( and territorial space) to come ‘home’ to after some 2,000 years of ‘statelessness’ and separation from the Land of their Fathers – the only place that they call ‘holy’ and the only land they have ever called home.’”
    Don’t forget that the Arabs were given nearly 78 per cent of the old Palestine to what is now Jordan. Israel ordered all Jews out of the Gaza Strip in 2005 and is prepared to give up more of its land to Palestinian Arabs. The problem, as it was in 1937, 1947 and 2000-01 is that the Palestinian Arabs refuse to compromise.
    Have you noticed that Trevor Barclay is wont to throw his ’toys out of the pram’ if he disagrees with something? Nazi propagandist Josef Goebbels and the USSR masters of disinformation would be proud of him for his use of smear tactics. It’s a lie, Trevor Barclay bombasts, or that we are harming our cause. Does Trevor think that Ezekiel 36 about the final ingathering of Jews to Israel and subsequent spiritual cleansing of Jewish immigrants is a lie?
    This chapter says God will do this to demonstrate the holiness of his great name, take the Jewish diaspora out of the world’s nations, restore the fertility of the Promised Land and cause the ruins of towns and cities to be rebuilt. These prophecies have come true in my lifetime.
    As Israel’s 1948 War of Independence began the United Nations did nothing to stop the seven Arab nations’ invasion of the Holy Land in defiance of the UN General Assembly. The world sat back as Israel looked as if it was to go under as the Muslim forces advanced.
    Dr Victor Pearce, a noted scientist, archaeologist and theologian, comments in his book ‘Prophecy’, that, as in subsequent wars between Arab and Jew, angelic visitations fighting on Israel’s side were responsible for the nascent Jewish state achieving victory against all the odds.
    He writes: “What had caused such a dramatic reversal? Strange rumours were coming in. Invaders from the south reported that they were confronted by legions of unknown troops clothed in white. The Israeli troops reported similar stories.”
    The Apostle Paul, speaking of the debt Gentiles owe Jews, writes in Romans 15:27: “For if the Gentiles have been partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister to them in material things.”
    In doing so, King Jesus will say to these Gentiles: “ … inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.”

  2. Good golly man have you ever listened to yourself?

    Here’s what you wrote under the name of ‘Buster J Bailey’,

    “Israel actually has a better claim to its existence, having been created by the U.N. rather than by the whims and national interests of the Allied victors”

    Now you claim, or at least your source does, that,

    ““The United Nations cannot create a Palestinian Arab state. Its resolutions are not legally binding. They are only recommendations.”

    Can create or can’t create. Which is it, Chris?

    You also fail miserably at looking at Israel’s declaration of Independence and HOW the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY recognised Israel and the BORDERS SHE DECLARED.

    Why is that, Chris?

  3. For someone who likes to squeal about San Remo etc you sure do ignore answering questions….a lot.

    Why is that, Chris?

  4. Christopher Proudlove

    I’ve got a whole bunch of things to which I have to attend first. I am not at the call of Trevor Barclay, the man who continues his nonsense about BJB and other matters. He only believes what his mind perceives is the truth and will not budge from this blinkered position.
    As to the creation by the UN of a Palestinian state:
    1) The United States and maybe other countries will veto such a proposal.
    2) Such a Palestinian state would not be viable economically.
    3) The present Hamas and Fatah regimes do not satisfy UN criteria for statehood regarding being good neighbours: they are both sworn to eliminating the Zionist entry.
    4) The Oslo accords state that both Israel and Palestinian Arabs have to agree on borders before matters can proceed.
    My own belief is that Palestinian Arabs living in Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and the Gaza Strip would be better off in every way if they embrace peace and lived as citizens of Israel. Their Muslim leaders’ constant call to arms against Israel has only resulted in suffering.

  5. Another failure to give a straightforward answer to the question.

  6. Christopher Proudlove

    What question?

  7. “Israel actually has a better claim to its existence, having been created by the U.N. rather than by the whims and national interests of the Allied victors”

    Now you claim, or at least your source does, that,

    ““The United Nations cannot create a Palestinian Arab state. Its resolutions are not legally binding. They are only recommendations.”

    Can create or can’t create. Which is it, Chris?

    Also. The part which says “having been created by the U.N. rather than by the whims and national interests of the Allied victors”

    Yea, that goes against every lie you have told about San Remo. Why is that, Chris. Can you explain that to us without lying?

    Also, “3) The present Hamas and Fatah regimes do not satisfy UN criteria for statehood regarding being good neighbours: they are both sworn to eliminating the Zionist entry.”

    Erm, last time i checked Palestinians do not occupy, illegally or otherwise, one inch of Israel inside Israel’s declared borders. Also, Hamas have agreed to recognise Israel inside the pre 67 borders and Fatah/PLO have recognised the state of Israel. Another hasbara fail by the idiot called Chris Proudlove.

    “My own belief is that Palestinian Arabs living in Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and the Gaza Strip would be better off in every way if they embrace peace and lived as citizens of Israel. Their Muslim leaders’ constant call to arms against Israel has only resulted in suffering.”

    Hmm, that’s at odds with a previous ramble from you.

    “I’m in favour of the original two-state solution to Palestine drafted by Winston Churchill – 78% for Arabs (Jordan) and the rest of the Holy Land for Israel.”

    Btw, that above quote can be found nowhere in the mandate.

    Another Proudlove lie folks.

  8. Christopher Proudlove

    Fatah say they will recognise Israel but there is no official agreement as yet. The Hamas Charter aims for a Jew-free Holy Land.
    As to the Churchill remark it was tongue in cheek. Times have moved on since Churchill was around. I never said it was part of the Mandate.

  9. Arafat and Abbas both recognised Israel…try again.

    “The Hamas Charter aims for a Jew-free Holy Land.”

    In recent years Hamas have accepted that Israel is going nowhere and said they will recognise Israel based on the pre 67 borders…Try again.

    “As to the Churchill remark it was tongue in cheek.”

    So it’s a lie. No surprise there then, eh, Chris

  10. Christopher Proudlove

    No, it’s not a lie. When Churchill was around I would have settled for the original two-state solution even though it deprived the Jewish state land east of the Jordan that was part of the original territory.
    There has been no official agreement on the recognition of Israel by Hamas or Fatah.
    I can’t believe Trevor Barclay is touting this line. So much for his credibility.

  11. Firstly. Hamas are not included in negotiations therefore they have no need to officially recognise anyone but the fact that they say they will recognise ~Israel based on the pre 67 borders is well documented.

    Secondly. Arafat and Abbas have both recognised Israel…that is FACT

    Thirdly “No, it’s not a lie. When Churchill was around I would have settled for the original two-state solution even though it deprived the Jewish state land east of the Jordan that was part of the original territory.”

    ROFL. The two state solution goes totally against San Remo but you are so thick,ignorant and bigoted that you can’t see it.

    Also, what i quoted you on from Churchill is a lie?

  12. Christopher Proudlove

    I was well aware that Hamas is not involved in the current Palestinian Arab negotiations with Israel that were brokered by the United States. Personally, I feel it would have been better for these talks to have taken place after an agreement had been reached between Hamas in the Gaza Strip and Fatah in the Palestinian Authority area.
    Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh last Saturday called for a new intifada, or terrorist uprising against Israel.
    Hamas has also claimed credit for a two-mile “terror tunnel” recently discovered by Israel close to ar a small Jewish village in southern Israel. It was filled with explosives and other weapons.
    Hamas was voted into power by a majority of Palestinian Arabs in 2006 legislative election, and Abbas has repeatedly sought reconciliation with the group after it violently seized control of Gaza a year later.
    The Hamas Charter outlines the party’s position on key issues. It is committed to the destruction of the State of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state in its place and also to undiluted Jew-hatred.
    The Charter emphasises the notorious and fraudulent anti-Semitic, “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” as hateful evidence that Jews are inherently greedy, manipulative and conniving. It repeats centuries-old fabrications such as: Jews becoming rich by stealing, Jews plotting to control the world and Jews pulling the strings of global media, government and finance. These anti-Semitic stereotypes have been used throughout history to demonise Jews and have led to countless pogroms and ultimately the Holocaust.
    The Charter blames “world Zionism” for every major disaster in modern history from the French and Communist Revolutions, to both World Wars, to the creation of the United Nations, which Hamas believes to having been created by Jews “in order to rule the world by their intermediary”.
    “Hamas will never recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist state that was founded on our land” – (Khaled Mashaal)).
    “The constants and the strategy of Hamas do not change according to circumstances. Hamas will stay faithful to jihad, to resistance, to guns, to Palestine and to Jerusalem.” — (Ismail Haniyah, Hamas Prime Minister).
    “The annihilation of the Jews here in Palestine is one of the most splendid blessings for Palestine” – (Hamas Cleric Muhsen)
    Trevor Barclay says: “Arafat and Abbas have both recognised Israel.” What Trevor does not realise is that these two are notorious for saying one thing to the Western media and the opposite to an Arab audience.
    Abbas has not yet formally recognised Israel in treaty form (that’s what the current talks are for). The same applies to Arafat.
    Trevor has misunderstood my remarks about Churchill, which on reflection were more ironic than tongue in cheek.
    The two-state solution of Churchill’s was Trans-Jordan for the Arabs, which represented nearly 78% per cent of the old Palestine and the rest of the Holy Land for Jews. Therefore it is not against San Remo but exactly what it specified for the future state of Israel. I’m laughing at Trevor’s remarks about me. I think they are more applicable to him in this discussion.
    What does ROFL stand for?

  13. Christopher Proudlove

    While there was much to admire about Simon Schama’s BBC2 part one documentary of the Story of the Jews until 1492, according to commentator Melanie Philips, she takes issue with the historian that Jews owe their rights over Israel to the Holocaust.
    Much of what she states her blog today supports what I have been saying in my discussions with Trevor Barclay. “Zionism is not a victims’ charter, but the right to self-determination of the Jewish people. The Jews are entitled to Israel not because of their unique history of suffering, but because it is their own historic homeland,” Melanie states.
    “ hey are the only people as ‘a’ people for whom it was ever their national kingdom, which it was for hundreds of years before the Arabs came onto the scene at all; and so the Jews are thus entitled to have their own country as a matter of historical, legal and moral right.
    “But Schama’s presentation misleadingly suggested instead that the Palestinian Arabs had an equivalent or even superior claim to the land. His programme made no mention of the international treaty in 1922 which explicitly recognised the unique Jewish right to settle all the land, including what is now the West Bank and Gaza.
    “Nor did the programme mention the betrayal by Britain of that treaty obligation, an ever-present incitement to Arab aggression which is the true cause of the Arab-Israel war without end. His moral indignation at a Jewish resident of Samaria for daring to live there demonstrated that, remarkably, Schama seems unaware of this history – and that the Jewish habitation of Samaria which causes him such disgust, on the false grounds that it is based on a contestable religious belief, is in fact rooted instead in history and law.
    “Quite why he cannot see this must remain a matter for speculation. But from the rest of his series, it would seem that he mourns the lost story of victims miraculously creating life out of the ashes – a story he suggests has been fatally compromised by the measures those victims are forced to take to ensure they never again are turned into ash.
    “In other words, he wants to turn Israel and the Jewish people into a different kind of story – his own story, the story to which he is so deeply attached. But that one is a story based on the myth of a world without hard choices, where the morally pure are those who never make any such hard choices – and where it follows that victimhood is therefore the pinnacle of morality.
    “But the State of Israel was founded on the great cry of ‘never again’ – and it means it. Which is why, whatever garlanded TV shows are made or books written, and however many ambivalent Jews wring their hands over it, Israel will never allow itself to become part of someone else’s story.”

  14. Christopher Proudlove

    Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu emphasised the importance of Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish state in a lengthy address to the Begin-Sadat Center at Bar Ilan University, according to a BICOM (British Israel Communications and Research Centre) report.
    At the same university where he publicly announced his support for the two-state solution four years ago, Netanyahu said that “the root of the conflict is the Jewish state.” He explained that “the most important key to solving the conflict” is “ending the [Palestinian] refusal to recognise the right of the Jews to a homeland of their own in the land of their fathers.”
    Reviewing the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict, Netanyahu said that Arab violence against Jews as far back as 1921 is proof that West Bank settlements which date to 1967 are not the basis of the conflict. Netanyahu concluded, “For the process we’re in to have a real chance of success,” the Palestinian leadership must “recognise the Jewish state, which is Israel.”
    Several rounds of talks between Israeli and PA delegations have taken place over the past few weeks, but few details have been released regarding the negotiations.
    Straight from Netanyahu’s lips. His comments prove that Trevor Barclay’s assertions on this matter are not top be trusted.

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