Monthly Archives: June 2013

The ICJ, Occupation, And The Wall

So Chris Proudlove is at it again. This time he has commented in one of his own blogs which can be found here  http://www.christiansforzion.com/comment-chris-proudlove/2013/6/21/sabeel-supporters-fallacies-exposed

 

After his embarrassing gaffe regarding UNSC resolution 242 he has hit back with these gems,

 

“There are strong legal precedents for the claim that a war fought defensively permits retention of the land secured in that war.”

 

I’ve already blown that lie out the water here  https://christiansforzionwatch.wordpress.com/2013/06/24/when-is-it-ok-to-lie/

 

Here’s the rest of his lie,

 

“Israel is not an “occupier” in Judea and Samaria, according to Arlene Kushner. She writes: The word “occupation” is bandied about regularly. The Palestine Authority and the Palestine Liberation Organisation have adopted the idea of Israel as “occupier” as a mantra and much of the world has accepted it. But the facts tell us something else.
Judea and Samaria were (and still are) unclaimed Mandate land, to which Israel has the strongest claim. Legally, occupation only occurs when one nation moves into the land of another. But there was no nation legally sovereign in Judea and Samaria before 1967 — Jordan’s presence there was not legal.
There are strong legal precedents for the claim that a war fought defensively permits retention of the land secured in that war. Wrote Steven Schwiebel, former judge of the International Court of Justice:”…the Israeli conquest of Arab and Arab-held territory was defensive rather than aggressive conquest.
“…it follows that modifications of the 1949 armistice lines… are lawful…whether those modifications are, in Secretary Rogers’s words, ‘insubstantial alterations required for mutual security’ or more substantial alterations – such as recognition of Israeli sovereignty over the whole of Jerusalem.” (Emphasis added)
Read the selected writings of Stephen M Schwebel, Judge at the International Court of Justice.
With all of the above, it should not be forgotten that areas over the Green Line, in eastern Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria, represent the very heart of Jewish heritage: From the Temple Mount; to Hevron and the Cave of Machpelah, where the matriarch and patriarchs are buried; to Shilo, where the Tabernacle was brought. How can Jews be “occupiers” in their own ancient land?”

 

Hmm, here’s his whole comment blown out of the water by Howard Kyle.

 

“In July 2004, the International Court of Justice in an advisory opinion ruled that both Israel’s separartion wall and its associated regime of check points, settlements, and by pass roads in the West Bank were illegal. The ICJ further stated that an occupying power cannot claim that the lawful inhabitants of the occupied territory constitute a “foreign” threat for the purposes of Article 51 of the UN Charter. The ICJ noted that Israeli settlements and the displacement of Palestinians is a violation of Article 49, paragraph 6, of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

The ICJ further cited Israel’s on going, oppressive policy of land confiscations, house demolitions, creation of Jewish only enclaves, restrictions on movement and access to water, food, education, health care and employment, as being in violation of its obligations under international law and the Palestinian right to self determination.”

 

And here’s the link to the ICJ  http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?pr=71&code=mwp&p1=3&p2=4&p3=6&case=131&k=5a

 

Another spectacular Hasbara fail by Proudlove and his sources. 

 

 

 

 

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Some Children Are More Equal than Others.

Imagine how absurd it would be if the Police charged a man with committing a robbery and the suspects lawyer turned up at court to defend him and used as his defence the fact that there were more serious crimes being committed in another part of town. Well this is defense that Mike Fryer ex detective and Christians for Zion director has done in his latest blog regarding Israel’s treatment of Arab child detainees.

Here’s a snippet,

“What the meeting in the Commons did not address is the detention of boys in Gaza who are now being detained by Hamas for having long hair and are being forced to have their heads shaved. Youths in Gaza are even being told what clothing they can wear. Children in Gaza are watching the bodies of so called Collaborators with Israel being dragged through the streets at the rear of motor cycles and over 100,000 boys aged between 12years and 16years are attending summer camps were they are being taught to kill and become suicide bombers and to kidnap Israeli soldiers.”

http://www.christiansforzion.com/comment-mike-fryer/2013/6/21/calling-evil-good-and-good-evil

It’s true that Hamas are an oppressive regime, but this has nothing to do with Gaza or Hamas. This is all about Israel’s mistreatment of Arab child “suspects”

Mike also goes on to tell us that these children are in fact not children at all but “youths”

“What the report didn’t say was that many of these “children” are in fact youths who have been attacking soldiers and Israeli civilians with stones, an action which the report considered “petty”.

It’s strange that he should say that when Israel has ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child which defines a child as any person under the age of 18 and is  also Israeli law. But as we know there is one rule for “us” and another rule for “them” in Israel and the West Bank.

The Huffington Post writes in an article based on UNICEF findings that,

“Ill-treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system appears to be widespread, systematic and institutionalised,” it concluded, outlining 38 recommendations to improve the protection of children in custody.

Over the past decade, Israeli forces have arrested, interrogated and prosecuted around 7,000 Palestinian children aged between between 12 and 17, most of them boys, the report said, noting the rate was equivalent to “an average of two children each day.”

“In no other country are children systematically tried by juvenile military courts that, by definition, fall short of providing the necessary guarantees to ensure respect for their rights,” it said.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/israeli-abuse-of-palestinian-children-systematic_n_2817231.html

But if you notice in Mike Fryer’s blog he dodges this all together in the classic Hasbara style and instead says,

“I don’t believe that there is no Justice in Israeli courts. Israel is a democratic country with the eyes of the world bearing down on every aspect of its society. As you can see they even allow foreign Politicians into their courts, would they do that if they were not following legal protocols? Israeli youths who are arrested for offences against Arabs are dealt with in the same way as Arab youths are. However what would happen in a Palestinian Arab court to an Israeli youth? I guarantee in a Gaza court he would be executed but would these Politicians have a meeting about that?”

That’s at odds with previous findings,

“Israeli military courts ‘have 99 percent conviction rate”

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=440537

I wonder if detective Fryer could tell us the conviction rate for settler kids who regularly throw stones at Arabs?

I wont be holding my breath waiting for that answer!

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When Is It OK To Lie?

Throughout my working life as a Police Detective I experienced lies and deception in our society not only among criminals but also by those in authority who were charged with upholding Justice and Truth. When I retired and became a Community Counsellor and School Governor I thought that had been put behind me but again I found lies and deceit in the management of my County Council. I became a Christian Pastor and I thought again all that had gone only to find that much of our Church history is coloured by lies, deceit and violence. I have come to the conclusion that Gods Laws have been opposed throughout history and are still being opposed at every level and in every organisation within society.”

 

The above quote is the opening paragraph of a blog written by Christians for Zion director Mike Fryer.

And here’s a quote from Mike’s fellow Christians for Zion blogger Chris Proudlove,

 “Resolution 242, passed by the UN Security Council following the war, gave implicit recognition to Israeli territorial conquests… “

 

The above is a lie.  The UN gave absolutely no recognition to “Israeli territorial conquests”.

 

From the preamble of UNSC resolution 242,

The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

 Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,”

 

And here’s a quote attributed to Lord Caradon,

 

“Knowing as I did the unsatisfactory nature of the 1967 line I was not prepared to use wording in the Resolution which would have made that line permanent. Nevertheless it is necessary to say again that the overriding principle was the “inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war” and that meant that there could be no justification for annexation of territory on the Arab side of the 1967 line merely because it had been conquered in the 1967 war.”

 

So is it wrong to lie except in cases where you lie on behalf of Israel on your blog, Mssrs Fryer and Proudlove?

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Censorship?

Christians for Zion recently updated their site which included comment moderation. On two occasions now i have attempted to comment regarding sources for the following claim by Chris proudlove,

 

“From the 13th century onwards half the Jews ever born have been viciously slaughtered,…”

 

Only to discover that my question regarding sources for the claim were not deemed fit for moderation. 

 

Chris Proudlove has also made a similar claim in the past which he claims as fact even though the person who made the initial claim [David Pawson] offered no evidence or sources to back up the claim,

 

“HALF of Jews born in the last 800 years have been murdered. A third of Jews born in the last 80 years have been murdered.

When these horrible facts were uttered by international Bible teacher David Pawson at the 2012 Northern Conference of the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem a wave of revulsion swept over the congregation.”

 

When i previously asked if Chris could point me in the direction of where i might find the evidence he replied,

 

“There are plenty of books outlining European pogroms against Jews from the Crusades onwards, including England, but it is the first time I’ve heard anyone stating a definite total. It is known that millions of Jews lost their lives in 19th century Russia. Indeed, this persecution sparked a mass move of Jews to the Holy Land. Pawson did not elaborate but I suspect the information might be contained in a forthcoming book. Being a graduate scientist, Pawson is not a man to pluck figures out of the air. I suggest you contact the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem or Pawson himself.”

 

So it appears Chris Proudlove is regurgitating this claim even though he has no evidence to back it up and that makes me wonder why he would make such a claim on the Christians for Zion website….and why wont they post up my comment regarding sources? 

 

My best guess is that they don’t like their propaganda and lies exposed. I know this to be true as previously i’ve had comments removed during a debate between Chris and myself regarding the San Remo treaty/Mandate for Palestine.

 

It’s all very surreal really as there is genuine anti semitic comments on their site which have never been removed….

 

What are you trying to hide, guys?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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